Destroyed Weopons In An Mech With Intact Armor? How? (2024)

#1Taxxian

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 01:52 AM

Hello,

I have been playing my new Highlanders recently and I am really happy with them but then the following occurred:

I was brawling with a Cataphract with AC20 and other Weapons I simply forgot. After around 20 sek I had no Weapons left. None at all. But there was armor left on all of my Mechs parts except Left Front Torso! (May have been Right Front, but it was only 1 part)

No there was no Ammo explosion, that was in my feet, it wasn't a Gaus Explosion and even that can not detonate the weapons in the opposite arm (I think). And no I was not out of ammo, there was ammo left for Srms and Gauss) I am also absolutely sure there were Weapons in 4 of my Sections (3*SRM,Gauss,Lasers)

That happened 3 times to me now and I can find no "Game Rules" explaining this.

Can shooting armor-less section crit Slots in completely different sections?
Is there a way to kill internals but leaving the Armor intact?

Please help me out on this, I am desperately trying to understand the game I like really much here.

Regards

Taxxian

PS: this happend 3 times to my Highlanders only, my Stalkers/Jagers/Jenners never had that Problem

Edited by Taxxian, 18 June 2013 - 01:53 AM.

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#2Aslena

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    Posted 18 June 2013 - 01:59 AM

    when a part is blown off more damage to that area transfers into other areas that touch it behind the armor if I have read posts about the subject correctly... Shots can also crit through the armor and do damage to the internals while the armor is still intact (fairly low chance but higher with MGs)

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    #3pow pow

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    Posted 18 June 2013 - 02:37 AM

    you can't crit stuff without taking the armor off first. that's what I always thought. Please correct me if I am wrong.

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    #4Strayed

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      Posted 18 June 2013 - 02:56 AM

      I believe in game currently weapons like PPC and Gauss can crit through armour at the moment. I've done it to a few enemies before with those weapons. If it is intentional or not, I have no clue.

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      #5Redshift2k5

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      Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:38 AM

      Take a screenshot. They even added in-game instant screenshot capability last patch. Press the PRINT SCREEN key on your keyboard for a complete screenshot.

      "Absolutely sure" is not sure enough. Pictures next time.

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      #6ValdnadHartagga

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      Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:03 AM

      Tabletop has rules for "Through-Armor Criticals" (TAC). They are the bane of every 'Mech's existence. Even an MG can make a TAC.

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      #7Selfish

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      Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:03 AM

      pow pow, on 18 June 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

      you can't crit stuff without taking the armor off first. that's what I always thought. Please correct me if I am wrong.

      There was a couple week period where the bounding boxes weren't interacting properly with the strike diameter of projectiles. Shots were literally slipping through armor and striking internals. That was quite awhile ago, however, and it was fixed by giving projectiles a strike diameter greater than 0. So, just a fun fact.

      I have, however, seen this kind of "one-shot everything is gone" complaint before in my guide on crits--which also featured a player in a Cataphract. I couldn't help him, and it doesn't appear to be a crit issue since explosions don't jump through the CT. I've never heard of a critical damage transfer bug. I'd suggest what others are. Take screenshots and, if you can, video. Bandicam/Fraps have trial versions that could be helpful. Once you have visual evidence of the problem/aftermath, send it off to MWO support--and this thread if you think we could help.

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      #8Deathlike

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      Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:08 AM

      The only other time this occurs is with overheating and overriding shutdown. Pictures are more useful to help determine why or how.

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      #9Aslena

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        Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:49 AM

        It may be a bug that you can be crit internally with full armor, on that I'm not certain but, me and a friend of mine have both had this happen ever since we started playing as we complain to each other about it when it happens. I assumed it was wat since that's how it is in tabletop. The crit thing has nothing to do with overheating.

        Edited by Aslena, 18 June 2013 - 08:49 AM.

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        #10DEMAX51

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        Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:40 AM

        I'm fairly certain this is a known issue (specifically with Gauss and PPC shots) and is not intentional at all. OP should submit a ticket to support.

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        #11Koniving

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          Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:15 AM

          ValdnadHartagga, on 18 June 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

          Tabletop has rules for "Through-Armor Criticals" (TAC). They are the bane of every 'Mech's existence. Even an MG can make a TAC.

          I have seen this happen with MWO, but only seen it happen when using or being fired at with Gauss and AC/20 / AC/10, and ultra-rare with concentrated LB-10x rounds. However losing one weapon is common. Two is rare. All is unheard of. Whether it's official or not I've seen them happen as early as June 2012 and as recently as March 2013. But you'd almost never lose more than one weapon at a time from TAC, and there's been no official word on them so you may chuck them up to a bug or an unexplained mechanic. Bring it up in ATD 41?

          ---

          For everyone, note that you should CritPad your weapons. If you have a weapon, stuff at least one double heatsink near it to protect it from harm. Note that you cannot protect large weapons such as LRM-20s, AC/20s, Gauss rifles, or other large weapons all that well due to their large number of crit slots. Things like medium lasers, AC/5s, etc., a few double heatsinks will protect them by soaking up the crit-damage more frequently than your weapon does.

          This may lead people on a wild goose chase of links, but I suggest looking here for impending results of not protecting your crit slots once everything is fully enabled.

          And looking either from there or from here you can see how to protect yourself starting from the bold text where it is called Ammunition Padding.

          Armor or not, padding protects your weapons by soaking up the damage first. You might lose a heatsink, or some other trinket but your weapons will be safer. The only better way to protect them is to simply not be shot at; but we know that isn't why you're here.

          Edit:

          Aslena, on 18 June 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

          The crit thing has nothing to do with overheating.

          This interested me because I came to realize in every time I've overheated (and trust me as a way to cheat my enemy of his kill if I'm about to die I'll override and alpha strike until I self-destruct so that he'll have nothing from me except an 'assist'. Preferably while killing my foe in the process), I never once caused any crit damage to myself.

          Ammo has not exploded. Heatsinks have not been destroyed. Many things that happened in closed beta don't happen. Used to be able to fry heatsinks by being pretty hot. Can't now. Rather than instantly exploding you can do up to 25 PPCs (30 in total) beyond 100% heat and keep laughing it off as your body parts melt from the inside. But does has anything inside been destroyed by heat? No. Strangely enough heat has never affected the health of my crit-slotted items.

          You've made me realize something. For that I give you a cookie and a machine gun. Thank you.

          Edited by Koniving, 18 June 2013 - 11:48 AM.

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          #12Ogresan

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            Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:32 AM

            It sounds like you overheated. Anytime you are over 100% heat you take internal damage. Soon heat over 150% will cause much more damage then just the +100%.

            TAC aren't in game and may not be added. Anytime you see stuff like this try to screenshot and report it to support so they can see whats wrong and fix it.

            Edited by Ogresan, 18 June 2013 - 11:38 AM.

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            #13Koniving

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              Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:46 AM

              Ogresan, on 18 June 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

              It sounds like you overheated. Anytime you are over 100% heat you take internal damage. Soon heat over 150% will cause much more damage then just the +100%.

              TAC aren't in game and may not be added. Anytime you see stuff like this try to screenshot and report it to support so they can see whats wrong and fix it.

              He's early in the game yet, so it's unlikely he has unlocked anything that would allow him to get close to 100% before shutting down. Last time I ran a trial Highlander mech the highest I could get is 96% and I'd shut down. Furthermore, the guy's new so he hasn't likely overriden or even understood how that works yet (since it's something you do before you overheat not after). Take a gander at the above-posted realization (with the second quote), and even watch the videos. Yes, I take internal damage but none of it causes me to lose my weapons or gear short of the part being completely destroyed from the inside.

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              #14DEMAX51

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              Posted 18 June 2013 - 02:53 PM

              Ogresan, on 18 June 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

              It sounds like you overheated. Anytime you are over 100% heat you take internal damage.

              This is not correct - if you go over your 100% heat threshold and override the shutdown you'll take damage, but if you overheat and just shutdown and remain shut down while your heat is over 100% you don't take any damage at all.

              I'm fairly confident the OP is experiencing a bug, because several experienced players in my guild have reported the same issue.

              Edited by DEMAX51, 18 June 2013 - 02:54 PM.

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              #15Redshift2k5

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              Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:11 PM

              DEMAX51, on 18 June 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

              I'm fairly confident the OP is experiencing a bug, because several experienced players in my guild have reported the same issue.

              I've heard this bug reported from all corners of the game, but I've never seen it, and pictures will go a long way to illustrating what's going on.

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              #16Taxxian

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              Posted 20 June 2013 - 01:19 AM

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              Uploaded with ImageShack.us

              And there it is, happened yesterday.

              You can see all structure and Weapons right are gone yet there is Armor, left side is damaged in spite of armor and the ECM on the left side is also gone. The Gauss Rifle had CASE btw.

              Normaly when I overheat I loose my Head and die, but it may be possible I overheatet during that match. Yet is is a very cold Map and look at my Weapons, 2 ML are all the Energy Weapons I have... Gauss and AC5 generat next to no heat at all...

              But this is not the same incident as I described before, in my Highlander the structure was not even yellow, this time in my Atlas the structure is also damaged, so it seems to be something a little different...

              You can also see my speed gauge showing strange stuff, that happens when using invert throttle a lot, but I rather dont care :-)

              Edited by Taxxian, 20 June 2013 - 01:23 AM.

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              #17Taxxian

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              Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:56 AM

              You are right, I always saw only Head-Damage due to Overheating, when there is a rule that spreads random damage its ok, I just wanted to know. Thank you!

              Something else: When I fire a Weapon, heat jumps up then pauses for half a second and then starts to decline slowly.

              Does that mean that after every fired Weapon my Heatsinks are disabled for half a second, therefore encouraging to Fire as much Weapons at once as possible for maximum Heatsink uptime? Or is it just a optical effect, and all Heatsinks are working at the same rate at all times?

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              #18Syllogy

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              Posted 21 June 2013 - 04:13 AM

              Heat Sinks are always working (unless they are destroyed).

              What you are seeing is the delay of dissipation caused by the burn time of lasers.

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              #19Redshift2k5

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              Posted 21 June 2013 - 04:31 AM

              That absolutely looks like self-inflicted heat damage. Override will do that to you, and it can not only destroy your items, it can kill your mech.

              If you have any further issues with losing weapons/items when you do not overheat, feel free to share the screenshot with us to we can have a look.

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              Does armor under power armor do anything? ›

              Power armor disables the bonuses from all equipped armor and apparel but headgear when no power armor helmet is equipped.

              Learn More ›

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